Ok, I've searched up and down, but cant really get what im looking for. I know it is recommended not to mount racing harness' with anything other than a roll cage, or a harness bar. so i basically have 2 questions.
1- i thought Corbeau(sp?) had harness' that mounted to the stock seatbelt area. where can i find these if they exhist.
2- where can i find a cheaper priced harness bar. dosent have to be pretty, ill prolly paint it anyways.
any help is really appreciated.
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I can't answer your first question, but as far as the second goes you may want to see if anyone local who builds frames could build you a cage, it shouldn't be too expensive to do really.
I'm saving up for one eventually, since i don't have back seats the two points that go through the seats are mounted where my rear seat belt bolts are, and the front lap belts are bolted under the front seats on the rear bolts.
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now ive heard people say its dangerous to mount them under the rear of the seat, but im just curious why. wouldnt it be the same basic thing if there was a harness bar there? what exactly is changed when done that way?
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Sorry I read that question wrong. I don't know how dangerous it would be but it fits the exact same way the original lap portion used too. Someone else may have some better insight on this though.
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mounting the lap belts onto the rear bolts isnt recommended but it is acceptable. on the passenger seat i used the two bolt holes in the body to mount the lap belts and on the drivers i used the body bolt on the left side and the seatbelt mounting thing on the bracket for the inside. had it inspected by a tech already and was told it would pass.
as for the rears i have included pics. these too passed the "tech inspection." I will find out in about a month if they are NHRA acceptable when i enter my first real race.
oh and if your wondering why i needed my 5 point harnesses (the 5th point goes in along with the below stuff on the 18th) i have this picture for you
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
The problem isn't only with the actual mounting of the harnesses. The problem lies in the function they serve. Without a roll cage, you're putting yourself in more danger with a harness on. A normal shoulder belt will allow your body to move sideways toward the center of the car in the event of a rollover. A harness will keep you firmly in position, ensuring your head is smashed or your neck is promptly broken in the same rollover. The roll-cage isn't for mounting the harness on. It's for keeping your head on your shoulders.
This is why street cars don't use racing harnesses.
Now consider that many racing series insist that if you have a roll cage, you MUST wear a helmet. Unless you've got one seriously padded rollcage, you can just imagine what sort of safety issues are now introduced.
Seriously... know the details of safety related mods before you go attempting to do them. If you don't know the whole story then you could be putting yourself at risk.
oh i know the reasons they have for making 5 points non-DOT complient. Known for a long time. Just doesnt bother me. I feel a lot safer knowning I aint going all over the place. If i flip im gonna be hurting either way.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
I don't know if this is really what your asking but, I had a buddy of mine that drove a 99 focus, i think that was the year. Anyway, he got in a bad wreck and he was a veg for about two months, becase of how his harness were attached. His straps were in his floor right behind his driver and pass. seat. He got in a head on accident and his car smashed up a little and lifted off the ground. His seat ended up pushing up a little (like less than 2 inches). While his 5 point stayed bolted into the floor. So when he went up and his harness stayed down It horribley crussed his back. After words he was told by a shop tech guy, the guy is a tec at a local dodge lot that we know, that the top shoulder straps should be secured around some kind of bar near the middle to top of the seat. So that it won't crush you in the event that somthing like that happens.
Landon Womack wrote:I don't know if this is really what your asking but, I had a buddy of mine that drove a 99 focus, i think that was the year. Anyway, he got in a bad wreck and he was a veg for about two months, becase of how his harness were attached. His straps were in his floor right behind his driver and pass. seat. He got in a head on accident and his car smashed up a little and lifted off the ground. His seat ended up pushing up a little (like less than 2 inches). While his 5 point stayed bolted into the floor. So when he went up and his harness stayed down It horribley crussed his back. After words he was told by a shop tech guy, the guy is a tec at a local dodge lot that we know, that the top shoulder straps should be secured around some kind of bar near the middle to top of the seat. So that it won't crush you in the event that somthing like that happens.
that is exactly what i was looking for. a real example of how it would cause problems, and that makes alot of sense. so i guess ill be getting a harness bar. anyone know where they have them decently inexpensive?
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Zach Hilton wrote:I know the risk. I chose to do them anyways.
I don't understand people like you. Would you mind explaining the benefits to the rest of us that make it worth while for you?
Im curious about the harness bar. Would it be best to have it custom made for the car or can you buy them
Wild Weasel,
Simple. I work on my car when I get money and when I get the time. Being in school full-time and driving my car as little as I do I find it to be the least of my worries. One of the next things on my list is I plan on having a harness bar isntalled, then re-attaching the top portion of my my harnesses. Everyone has his/her own personal preference on how they do things. I don't know the size of people who set in your seats, but as far as the lap portion of my belts go for me and who rides in them, it is no different than when the stock seatbelts in place. So for now, I am perfectly ok with how my setup is, though I do plan on changing some minor things.
Its not that its worthwhile for me, but for the next couple of months it will have to suffice. What I don't understand is people like you. Its not that you have anything creative or constructive to say, but rather the constant bashing of what people do. Do you once stop think why its being done, or just have something negative to say about what they do?
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i was watching a show on speedvision quite a while ago and they were saying that if you mount them low, when you get in an accident or rollover the harness will pull you down and compress your spine whereas if they are mounted higher (like near your shoulders) it is a lot safer.
My Cardomain
Yeah I saw that too. Thats one of the biggest reasons I have them running to my back seat seatbelt bolts until I get a bar. It puts the angle at which straps run not directly down. I know when Z2FLIP4 posted his floor bar along time ago alot of people started going on about how unsafe that was.
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JBOK (J-bodies of Kentucky)
Hey, in a related question does anyone know the kind of torx head that is used to get those bolts out so you can mount the harnesses in?
All I have in this world is my balls and my word, and I don't break 'em for NO ONE.
T55. make sure you get right over it so you dont strip it. its in there good.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Zach Hilton wrote:Everyone has his/her own personal preference on how they do things.
Safety is not about preferences. If your "preference" ends up making your car dangerous, then it's in your best interest for me to educate you as to what is wrong with your preference.
Zach Hilton wrote:
I don't know the size of people who set in your seats, but as far as the lap portion of my belts go for me and who rides in them, it is no different than when the stock seatbelts in place. So for now, I am perfectly ok with how my setup is, though I do plan on changing some minor things.
It's not the lap portion that concerns me. It's the shoulder belts. Having two shoulder belts going up and over your seat will hold you firmly in place during a crash. That's not necessarily what you want. Having a single shoulder belt going up over the shoulder nearest the side of the car will do just as good a job of holding you back from the steering wheel but will allow you lean over into the middle of the car if necessary during a side impact or rollover. This is where the danger lies with the racing harnesses.
Zach Hilton wrote:
Its not that its worthwhile for me, but for the next couple of months it will have to suffice. What I don't understand is people like you. Its not that you have anything creative or constructive to say, but rather the constant bashing of what people do. Do you once stop think why its being done, or just have something negative to say about what they do?
Why does it have to suffice? Why do you need to modify the seatbelts at all? What's wrong with the stock ones?
I have a lot of creative and constructive things to say. This, however, is not the place for them. You don't get creative when it comes to safety. You get technical. And technically, what you are doing is dangerous. By pointing that out, I'm trying to help. I'm not out to bash anyone. I'm out to educate on what the purpose of these mods are and to demonstrate how if they're not done properly, they can be a very real danger.
If you choose not to listen, that's your perogative. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help here.
I don't think theres anything wrong with modifying the seatbelts at all. Its not something that only I have done. Plenty of other people on this board along with other people not on this board have done the same thing.
I understand what you're saying about it being a safety concern, but if we all went on the necessary safety of everything we do, then fiberglas fenders, bodykits, and hoods would all be a big no no too. Theres no way in the impact of a crash that they could be near as safe as the oem metal parts but people still choose to do so.
When it comes to working on my car I try to make things safe but I guess this is going to be an area where I disagree with you. With a roll bar and harness I feel just as safe or safer in the event of a roll over than if my car was in stock form.
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Just because you feel safer, doesn't mean you are. This is the bane of all of us on the roads due to all the people who think driving monster SUV's think they're safer.
If you put a roll cage in, you should be fine (unless you bounce your head off the cage, but that's a different issue). You are NOT safer though with just the harness and no roll cage. That's my point here. Don't convince yourself that you are because it makes you feel safer.
Just because other people do something, doesn't make it right.
My fibreglass hood is just as safe as a stock hood. The hood doesn't absorb energy from an impact. It's job in an impact is to fold in the middle and hold to the car at the latch and the hinges. Mine will do that. It's been engineered and tested for it, though most of the hoods on the market were not.
I DO consider safety in all of my mods and encourage others to do so as well. Notice how I've improved the handling and braking of my car before adding power. Notice that I've still got a stock steering wheel even though I'd prefer to drive with a somewhat smaller diameter wheel but won't get rid of the airbags.
And if you just really like how fancy and race-like the harnesses look, by all means go ahead and install them but I highly encourage you to actually use the stock belts when you're driving the car. Leave the harness for show or autox where there's pretty much nil chance of a rollover. For regular driving or the drag strip though, use the stock ones.
I do agree that much of what is brought into the market is not done with safety in mind. I will leave this post at this though for I feel in some way it has and hasn't gotten off top. I unlike most am not doing it just for show, and with the little amount of driving I do, rolling over is the least of my worries. If I felt it was just safe enough as is, I wouldn't be adding a cage to it. But in all honesty I am more worried about some idiot banging their doors on the side of my car or some idiot hitting me in the rear while setting at a redlight, because of where I drive and the amount of driving I do, thats really the most common scenario I am faced with. Now one could argue this or that could happen but I am saying from the most likely occurence of things to happen.
I do commend you on focusing on other things before moving to adding power to your car. That in turn is what I am doing myself, but more so because until this car isn't my only car, I choose not to go into performance just yet.
But I do see that if we are to hinder doing mods based on safety, then that really restricts what one can do to a car. Not because what we do is unsafe but because we can always find someone who can provide an opposing argument to what is being done.. And if not to that then I am sure many would argue that no one should perform modifications themselves, especially if they don't have previous experience in doing so. They would say it should be left to trained specialist in those areas.
I don't agree with that nor do many other people. So in the end I think it comes down to whether you are content with what you are doing or not. Doesn't make it right nor does it make it wrong, but thats just how some things are.
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Zach Hilton wrote:But I do see that if we are to hinder doing mods based on safety, then that really restricts what one can do to a car. Not because what we do is unsafe but because we can always find someone who can provide an opposing argument to what is being done.. And if not to that then I am sure many would argue that no one should perform modifications themselves, especially if they don't have previous experience in doing so. They would say it should be left to trained specialist in those areas.
This is exactly the sort of argument that the insurance and law enforcement people use when trying to shut down our hobby. It's for this reason though that people should be diligent in ensuring that their mods do NOT make their cars a further danger to themselves or others. The only way for people to do this though is to be properly educated on what they're doing before they go and do it. If the arguments hold water, then there's nothing we can do to counter them. But if they don't, and you can show how your mods are not making the car unsafe and, in many cases, are making it safer and can explain and demonstry why that is, then you leave them speechless and score some points for all of us in the modding world.
Zach Hilton wrote:
I don't agree with that nor do many other people. So in the end I think it comes down to whether you are content with what you are doing or not. Doesn't make it right nor does it make it wrong, but thats just how some things are.
That's only true though when the person making that decision is aware of all the facts involved and even then it's only true if the person making the decision is responsible enough to do so. Just as a 12 year old is not deemed able to decide whether or not they should be out drinking, I don't think many people should be allowed to decide whether or not to do certain things to their cars. In a perfect world, people would make the right decisions, but you don't have to spend long in the Suspension forum here to realize how many people don't care about their own or others safety if they think they can make their car "look mad tyte, yo" for dirt cheap. Those people should not be allowed to make those decisions, and I hope you agree on that.
In this case, with the harnesses, it's a matter of education and in the end it's really your own safety at risk more than anyone else. But this argument extends much further than that.
We really have dragged this thread way off topic but I hope some people read this and realize that it's worth educating themselves about mods before doing them. Whether I agree with your decision or not, you should at least be making it with all the facts at hand.
