Ok this is quite a long story but I will keep it as short as possible.
About 2 years ago I was having major issues with with the car killing my battery. So I tryed to locate the problem by disconnecting the battery and hooking up a circuit tester light and pulling fuses to see what was causing the problem, after pulling the instrument cluster fuse the circuit tester light turned off. Telling me that the instrument cluster was shorted somewhere. But I decided to take it to the dealership anyway since the car was under warranty. Sure enough they found the same thing I did and replaced the instrument cluster. For about a year the car seemed to work properly... Until about 8 months ago I have the same exact problem. Something in the instrument cluster circuit is drawing amperage while the car is shut off.
I have done everything that I know of to solve this problem, and the car is still not drivable 8 months later. Granted it was winter and I dont drive it in the winter (it is substituted for my 2007 Polaris 600 HO CFI, Much more fun than a car I might add) but now its time for the summer fun and the car is undrivable. I bought a new instument cluster thinking that would solve the problem but no luck at all, the car is still drawing amperage while shut off. So after further search I was able to pull one plug on the BCM and the circuit tester would shut off, but after replacing the BCM, still no luck. Now I have half of the car tore appart waiting for a resolution to this potentialy simple problem.
So if I start at the fuse box, and pull the instrument cluster fuse, the light goes out, this obviously means that somthing on that circuit is causing the short. I have the instrument cluster itself unhooked and the car is still drawing amperage. Pull the fuse it is fine. You get the idea. So basically I am in a major dilema as to what this problem is, the car is not under warranty and the dealer charges way to much. Does anyone know what else is on the instrument cluster fuse? There must be somthing else that is in the same circuit that is causing this problem. Is there any relays, or sensors, or anything? Does anyone have a wiring diagram that would show what connects to this circuit and is controlled by the instrument cluster fuse? I will most likely be pulling the whole dash very soon to expose everything but would like to know what I should be looking at before I take off the dash or even what to look at after the dash is off.
Keep in mind this car is not old at all its a 2001 2200 3 speed and has about 60,000 miles on it, never drove in the winter, and only sees about 3000 miles a year. So as for a wire being wore through and shorted out, it is still a possibility but is more likely an electrical component.
Please help and give any suggestions, I am so lost that I almost want to junk the car just for some electrical problem. It really is pissing me off and keeping me stumped for that long. I have delt with more electrical problems on this car than any person should ever deal with on a vehicle in thier lives. But the super built 2200 is still in the drawing board, I was determined to be the first J-body with titanium connecting rods, true equal length turbo manifold, and many other unknowns when I get my $130,000 salary in a few years. I know this sounds like a bunch of bull @!#$ talk but this stuff was truly going to happen but I am really thinking about selling the car and getting on the list for a Lotus Exige in few years. But Honestly I want the Cavy AND the Lotus. But I cant wait to have a running car.
I would expect a slight bit of amperage to be drawn by the cluster, even when the car is off. At the very least, you've got the little theft lock light blinking, right?
How long does it take for your battery to run down once the car is off? Is it possible that the battery just isn't holding a charge very well? If it's still the original battery, then it's probably past due for replacement by now.
i kinda skimmed a little bit so i didnt notice if you said you had the battery tested or not, but my first step would be to test the battery and most likely replace it.
even if you drive it to an autozone or the like, you will have been recently charging the battery on the drive there so you may not get an accurate reading. it could show fully charged when in 20 minutes of the car being off could drop right back down.
if it were me the first thing i would do is take the battery from a car in the household that is holding a charge currently and swap it in for a day to see if that cures it.
Joey Baggs (Eazy716) wrote:i kinda skimmed a little bit so i didnt notice if you said you had the battery tested or not, but my first step would be to test the battery and most likely replace it.
even if you drive it to an autozone or the like, you will have been recently charging the battery on the drive there so you may not get an accurate reading. it could show fully charged when in 20 minutes of the car being off could drop right back down.
if it were me the first thing i would do is take the battery from a car in the household that is holding a charge currently and swap it in for a day to see if that cures it.
Spankin' new battery and it dies about a week after putting it in the car. I have tried 4 new batteries and will be getting an optima yellow top, which will likely not die but is obviously just masking the problem. I want to find the problem before I just band-aid it.
I dont know if you guys have ever used a circuit tester on a car but with the car shut of and all doors closed and lights off the circuit tester should only light up very dimly. This is lighting up very bright, just like having a light turned on inside the car. It wont kill the battery for maybe a week of leaving it on, but it is taxing the battery so much just to get it to turn on that after about a week of this the battery is dying.
The instrument cluster has a lot of wires going in from certain sensors and stuff but that is not causing the problem, because when the instrument cluster fuse is pulled the circuit tester shuts off completely. And no my car does NOT have the theft lock light. So I am not sure if these clusters have any relays or anything that are shorting out and causing the problem or not. There is no way to trace the wires from the fuse panel up to the instrument cluster, there is just too much stuff in the way. Chilton's manuals suck for this kind of stuff because it doesnt actaully show you what is after the fuse.
This is just getting so frustrating to be buying batteries one after the other and having to jump the car every time after one week. And of course there is like ZERO literature on the wiring for the car. I dont know if the Chevy factory manuals would be any better but I am almost willing to do anything, except for take it to the damn dealer.
Get a stethoscope. Charge the battery and go to every motor in the car (windows, locks, antennas, every solenoid you can find). Make sure none of those are running.
My mom's Bonneville just recently had this same problem, it was a shorted out power antenna.
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Interior FAQ -
J-Body of Michigan -
Yeah but I have located the circuits that are drawing voltage while the vehicle is completely off.
I put a multimeter on each fuse slot.
The Cluster circuit is drawing full voltage and the gauge cluster is not even hooked up.
The PCM circuit is drawing full voltage.
The 02 Heater circuit is drawing full voltage.
And the interior lamp/radio circuit is drawing full voltage, but I speculate this is because the doors are open while checking the fuse, so it would have to be drawing full voltage.
This is really getting to be so frustrating that I have actaully thought about towing the @!#$ thing to the junk yard. It is impossible to trace the wires anywhere because every single one of them is bundled up with 50 other wires.
I worked on it for 3 hours again tonight and the only headway that I think I may have made is on the o2 heater circuit. The multimeter was telling me that the circuit itself is connected to ground. I have a hunch that this information is telling me that somthing is shorted out to ground on that circuit. Maybe the o2 heater itself is shot. But the only thing I dont know is if the o2 heater is always grounded because it is mounted on a ground point itself. But my guess is that he o2 heater has an internal switch that is could but stuck open. So I will be chasing that lead a little bit further.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330063826894&rd=1,1
Its not the voltage that's killing the battery, its the amperage.
GM wrote:
1*Disconnect the battery negative cable from the battery negative terminal.
2*Install the male end of the J 38758 to the battery ground terminal.
3*Turn the J 38758 knob to the OFF position.
4*Install the battery negative cable to the female end of the J 38758 .
5*Connect a 10A fused jumper wire to the test switch tool terminals.
6*Turn the J 38758 knob to the ON position.
7*Road test the vehicle and activate ALL of the accessories, including the radio and air conditioning. This may take up to 30 minutes.
8*Park the vehicle. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position and remove the ignition switch key.
9*Turn the J 38758 knob to the OFF position. The current now flows through the jumper wire.
10*Wait 1 minute. If the fuse blows, install an inductive ammeter and go to step 20.
11*Remove the fused jumper wire.
12*Set a digital multimeter to the 10A scale.
13*Connect the digital multimeter to the test switch tool terminals.
14*Turn the J 38758 knob to the OFF position. The current flows now through the digital multimeter.
15*Wait 1 minute. Check and record the current reading.
16*When there is a current reading on 2A or less, turn the J 38758 knob to the ON position. The electrical current will now pass through the switch.
Then switch the digital multimeter down to the 2A scale for a more accurate reading when the J 38758 knob is turned OFF.
17*Turn the J 38758 knob to the OFF position. Wait 15 minutes for most vehicles.
18*Check and record the current reading.
18a*Note the battery reserve capacity, amp hour rating.
18b*Divide the reserve capacity by 4, amp hour rating by 2.4.
19*Compare this to the multimeter milliampere reading taken in the previous step. The parasitic current drain should not exceed this number. Example: If a battery has a reserve capacity of 100 minutes, (60 A/H) the current drain should not exceed 25 mA.
20*If excessive current drain is not found at this time and there are no other apparent causes, complete the following:
Using the MIN/MAX function of the digital multimeter, monitor the parasitic drain overnight or during the day. This will determine if something has been activated during that time frame.
Important
Removing fuses, relays, and connectors to determine the failure area may wake up modules. You must wait for these modules to go to sleep or use the sleep function on the scan tool.
21*When the vehicle has an unacceptable amount of parasitic current drain, remove each fuse one at a time until the current drain falls to an acceptable level. This will indicate which circuit is causing the drain. Refer to Power Distribution Schematics in Wiring Systems to diagnose exactly which part of the suspect circuit is causing the parasitic drain. In some cases a non-fused circuit or component, such as a relay, is the cause of excessive parasitic current drain.
22*Repeat the parasitic current drain test procedure after any repair has been completed to make sure that the parasitic current drain is at an acceptable level.
When the cause of the excessive current drain has been located and repaired, remove the J 38758 .
23*Connect the battery negative cable to the battery negative terminal.
I get to do all that tomorrow
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:44 PM
Well....
This is just getting more confusing every time I work on the car. Tonight everything appears to be in spec. Of course the BCM pulls high amperage until nothing happens for 20 minutes, after 20 minutes the car goes into sleep mode and everything is fine. But 6 months ago, it was not "fine" it killed 3 batteries. I guess the best thing to do is just spend the money on an Optima yellow top that can be recharged many times and still be like new. That way when the battery dies I dont have to worry about it being weaker every time it dies.
Kardain if your having the same problem I was, just remeber that the BCM (or maybe the ecu controls this, I really dont know) has to go into sleep mode before you touch anything to get the readings. If you are trying to check amp draw, get some aligator clips so that you can keep a meter constantly connected to the car for 20 minutes to watch the amp draw readings. If you pull the battery terminal and then reconnect ANYTHING, or even just touching a meter from the negative terminal to ground will cause the computer to restart this mode, requiring you to wait 20 minutes again. So be sure the first thing you do is remove the negative cable and clip on aligators from the negative post to the meter and from the meter to the negative cable that is now free of the battery, and leave it there at for at least 20 minutes. I origionally though the sleep mode kicked in much quicker but after talking with my dealer they made it quite clear that a 20 minute wait is required.
