I was thinking that the North America needs more fuel efficient cars. The only thing is that we're not Europeans or Asians and simply will not ride around in little go-carts with roofs on them. Hybrid is also out, mostly because hybrids are only good in the city. Step out onto a highway and every last bit of economy just flies out the door as you're passed by a Diesel Jetta.
Which brings me to diesel. Good idea, mostly. But it's not for us. Yes, it's fuel efficient. Yes, it's durable. But we have efficient and durable gasoline engines on this continent and gas isn't so expensive yet that it would be worth buying the things.
So it leaves us with gas, which also leaves us at square one.
Except, I've been reading about this Multiple Cylinder Deativation System thing and think this may be the answer. We drive cars that are too heavy, so small engines aren't the solution. So what about bigger engines with more cylinders, so you can play with the displacement in much the same way new transmission have more gears?
Think about it. You put a 6 liter V12 in a car like the Camaro and have an MCDS that can switch between a 6 liter V12, 5 liter V10, 4 liter V8, 3 liter V6, 2 liter V4 and 1 liter V2 and you have the basis for an extremely efficient car that provides gobs of power. You could even include a manual switch that allows the car to run and stay in different configurations. Want to go racing, switch to V12. Want to go get some groceries and don't feel like spending 50$ of gas doing it? Go into V6 or V4 mode. Other times let the computer decide for you.
Yeah, I know that Cadillac killed the idea with it's 8-6-4 engine from 1980, but that was 29 years ago when computer controls in cars was nearly non-existent and the average PC had all the power of a casio calculator. Today's computers could easily do the job and shuffle the piston rotation around and if something went wrong, you could have the system simply revert to a normal engine system using all the pistons all the time.
Hey, it's this or a brand new batch of Geo Metros. What would you rather have?
how bout this
you know how a diesel locomotive works right? and why they can move megatons of steel and goods around while using minimal amounts of fuel right?
diesel turns generator
generator powers electric motors
we can do this with cars.
picture this.
a compact hatchback style car with some sporty looks and suspension.
in the rear just an electric motor to turn the rear wheels under the cargo area
in the center tunnel of the chassis we put the batteries
in the front we have out diesel motor. just big enough to turn the generator needed to keep the batteries charged and the cars functions operating. I am not picturing much larger than 750cc with a super small turbo on it though I am not an engineer myself
this rotational mass can also be used for the power steering and A/C just like any other car
and since the diesel will always be operating at one rpm and always deliviering one steady amount of power, unlike any car engine which has to operate anywhere between 700 and 3000 rpm just for normal driving, not to mention varying loads, we can design out mini turbo diesel motor to run at perfect efficiency at that the one rpm and one power output it will ever experience.
its not a total separation from fossil feuls, however I think it provides great potential
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problem #1 would be the cost of a car using a system as you described.
problem #2 would be the maintenance and repair costs
Car manufacturers have the fuel economy solution since many years.
My dad bought a Mercury Cougar XR7 in 1987. Brand new. The car averaged a steady 36 mpg, wich was awesome for a V8 car from the 80's!!
The dealership called him three or four months later after the purchase claiming they had a recall repair/maintenance to do on the car, wich my dad went gladly. Ever since this "recall" the car got 22-23 mpg at it's best. My dad went back a few weeks later to ask what the hell was happening and he got the typical, everything is normal sir. Of course, the rest of the V8 1987 cars averaged 2o mpg.
From what I heard, Ford messed up at the plant by installing prototype carburators (D'Oh!!) on a few hundred cars instead of the "regular" carburator it was supposed to. Why didn't they install it on all of them in the first place???
Quote:
Hey, it's this or a brand new batch of Geo Metros. What would you rather have?
This MCDS device sounds like a good idea. If it's not made by Chrysler. lol
NUTCASE . wrote:how bout this
you know how a diesel locomotive works right? and why they can move megatons of steel and goods around while using minimal amounts of fuel right?
diesel turns generator
generator powers electric motors
we can do this with cars.
picture this.
a compact hatchback style car with some sporty looks and suspension.
in the rear just an electric motor to turn the rear wheels under the cargo area
in the center tunnel of the chassis we put the batteries
in the front we have out diesel motor. just big enough to turn the generator needed to keep the batteries charged and the cars functions operating. I am not picturing much larger than 750cc with a super small turbo on it though I am not an engineer myself
this rotational mass can also be used for the power steering and A/C just like any other car
and since the diesel will always be operating at one rpm and always deliviering one steady amount of power, unlike any car engine which has to operate anywhere between 700 and 3000 rpm just for normal driving, not to mention varying loads, we can design out mini turbo diesel motor to run at perfect efficiency at that the one rpm and one power output it will ever experience.
its not a total separation from fossil feuls, however I think it provides great potential
They are already in production, but not in everyday cars.
City buses are the most common. They use a 5.9L Cummins to run the generator. I have also seen a Coke-Cola delivery truck with the same set-up. It sounded like a HUGE RC car.
"Project 69'"
1969 Chevrolet C/10, 1/2 ton, 2wd
-Boosted LS1?
-Richmond ROD 6-speed(will get sometime)
-Posi 12-bolt(built w/eaton posi unit and richmond 3.73 gears)
-Disc brake and 5 lug swap
+little extras
Knoxfire Esquire wrote:Which brings me to diesel. Good idea, mostly. But it's not for us. Yes, it's fuel efficient. Yes, it's durable. But we have efficient and durable gasoline engines on this continent and gas isn't so expensive yet that it would be worth buying the things.
I was with you until this. Diesel very much *is* for us. Our most efficient gasoline engines simply can not touch an efficient diesel engine. Diesel fuel has approximately 15% more available energy then gasoline. The engines also burn the fuel more completely. A diesel engine can typically get 25% to 40% better fuel economy then a comparable gasoline engine.
For the sake of comparison, there are plenty of cars from other countries to look at, but lets just look at one that is available here, the Volkswagen Jetta. A standard Jetta comes with a 2.5L gasoline engine which puts down 170 hp and 177 lb-ft and gets 20 city 29 highway mpg (assuming automatic trans, for the sake of what most people drive). A Jetta TDI on the other hand has a 2.0L turbo diesel that puts down 140 hp and 236 lb-ft and gets 29/40 mpg. We are talking about *ten* mpg difference, in the very same car, with 2 engines that put out very comparable power (one has more hp, the other more tq, putting the two within throwing distance of each other).
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about
the former." - Albert Einstein
Well Gas and Diesel engines breathe different Dave. A diesel engine, no matter how good, is like driving a farm truck. You press on the gas and are catapulted back into the seat by all the torque, but by the time you need to upshift the thing has completely run out of power and there's just nothing on the other end of that pedal. It's a weird feeling, not at all like a gas engine.
I like Nutcase's Hybrid/Diesel solution better than mine, probably the best one we could hope for.
****
And something else to mull over: If lawmakers actually do force more fuel efficient cars across the board, will it be just a ploy to tax gas into the stratosphere? Because what's the point of all having 40+mpg cars if gas prices double because of that? It will cost us more in the long run. Try to drive around your 1969 Camaro on the weekends with gas at 10$ a gallon, see how much "fun" that would be.
The US wants to import less gas, but they haven't said ANYTHING about taking in less money in fuel costs. Everyone is talking about the Obama administration as if it has it's nose up the Green lobby's butt. Only, I'm not so sure of that. There's nothing OPEC would like more than for gas to be sold at 2-3 times the price. This whole "Fuel efficiency/Green movement/Energy independance" movement may just be a smokescreen for higher fuel prices down the road. Don't fool yourselves about that. Politicians are politicians.
how bout this they should just start remaking the 3cyl. Geo again then all our problems will be solved
ShowOff Customz
03 Cavalier
73 Beetle
68 Fairlane 500
Knoxfire Esquire wrote:Well Gas and Diesel engines breathe different Dave. A diesel engine, no matter how good, is like driving a farm truck. You press on the gas and are catapulted back into the seat by all the torque, but by the time you need to upshift the thing has completely run out of power and there's just nothing on the other end of that pedal. It's a weird feeling, not at all like a gas engine.
To make a comment like this, means you haven't driven today's French or German diesels. Take a gander at MB E-class Bluetec for an example.
Also that's why Turbo and diesel goes like peanut-butter and jelly. Diesel's stomp pulling torque and turbo's top-end. It's a beautiful thing.
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NUTCASE . wrote:strat81 wrote:problem #1 would be the cost of a car using a system as you described.
problem #2 would be the maintenance and repair costs
#1, thats why I said a compact hatchback, so you can make and sell 300thousand of them thereby bringing down the cost
#2, where would the maintance cost be over any other gas or hybrid car?
i apologize... when i replied, your post had not yet shown up. My comments were on the shut down cylinder setup that was initially posted due to the complexity of the system that would be required to shut down cylinders. (figure diagnostic costs and repair when something goes wrong)
the diesel/electric motor setup actually sounds pretty good.
