So he has an eg hatch that he is building. He has a non-vtec SOHC D16. Bottom end will be built with fresh bearings, eagle con rods, "vitara" pistons 8.5:1 comp ratio. He's going to run a 59mm precision turbo wit 0.63 A/R exhaust housing on a ram horn style manifold. The manufacture rates the turbot to 600hp. The head will be built with 11,000 rpm valvetrain components, but the head and cam will be stock. He will run 2.5" charge pipes, a huge FMIC, and a 3" exhaust. Tuning will be done with hondata s300 with boost control option and a 4bar MAP. He will also be running meth injection in addition to 1000cc/min injectors. Stock intake mani.
He wants 600hp at the crank, but will be satisfied with anything in the 400's to the wheels.
I was impressed that the whole build is coming in around 5000$ including the spare short block, clutch and flywheel!! I'm a little wary of the vitara pistons, but people have broken deep in to 600's on them. I'm also concerned about the stock head and cam for an all out build like this. He also should have gone with a progressive meth injection vs the simple on/off kind like he did. Thoughts?
400 whp with stock head and cam? why bother trying for that? how expensive can it be for a bigger cam and some work on the head? i'm not saying it can't be done, but i would call that a severe limitation.
87 Firebird
All stock...........lol.
A D16 non-vtec and a 59mm turbo with 400whp? Not going to happen, sorry. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I have a strong feeling I am not.
atleast clean up the port work in the head and gasket match , if he doesnt wanna do a full port job , kinda waste not to while its opened up
he is also gonna have a supra power curve , dead tell 5-6k , then big spike up in power
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:28 AM
I'm bored so were going to break this down....way down.
oldskool wrote:He has a non-vtec SOHC D16.
A 1.6 liter is already small displacement. Along with a SOHC its going to be hard to get it to open up. V-tec would really make a difference in this build. You'd be surprised at the HP difference. Specially once you start to mod it.
oldskool wrote:Bottom end will be built with fresh bearings, eagle con rods, "vitara" pistons 8.5:1 comp ratio.
With the amount of boost he'll have to run he's going to have to sleeve his block. I don't think you can get a D16 block to handle 400whp otherwise. At bare minimum you'll have to ring the block for copper wire in order to keep from blowing head gaskets. You have no idea what i'm talking about here do you?
oldskool wrote: He's going to run a 59mm precision turbo wit 0.63 A/R exhaust housing on a ram horn style manifold./quote]
For his power goals he's running too small of a turbo. the .63 A/R ratio is too large for his intake/engine size. Try reading "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Once he learns what A/R actually is he might understand how to choose a correct turbo.
oldskool wrote: The manufacture rates the turbot to 600hp.
So you're going to push it to its max and expect it to last and be sufficient?
oldskool wrote:The head will be built with 11,000 rpm valvetrain components, but the head and cam will be stock.
So he's going to upgrade to get it to run 11k RPM and have a stock head? No way it will happen. It will take 10 years to climb in RPM's. Not to mention a rev like that you're going to have to run oversied valves. Which guess what...means you have to machine the head. Its no longer stock. I've got 1mm oversized valves in mine. You're going to have a problem letting your exhaust back out and taking in enough air, yet you're going to have a SOHC stock at that and no PnP the head with all the other work?
oldskool wrote:He will run 2.5" charge pipes, a huge FMIC, and a 3" exhaust.
I almost agree with this. Beside for the fact a HUGE FMIC means nothing. You need a good core designed well. If you're running a "HUGE" FMIC that is the thickness of a small radiator you're wasting money, space, and just look like a ricer. A 3" exhaust will be needed but it doesn't matter with a stock single cam thats doesn't have oversized valves, because you're keeping head stock, you wont be able to let that exhaust gas out.
oldskool wrote:. Tuning will be done with hondata s300 with boost control option and a 4bar MAP.
Is he a tunning it himself? Does he know how to data log? Is he going to spray? Otherwise....you're wasting money. Run a 3 bar map sensor and S100. The option are limitless with S100 yet you save about 300 dollars. You wont be boosting over 30psi....not with that build. Why a 4 bar?
oldskool wrote: He will also be running meth injection in addition to 1000cc/min injectors.
Meth huh good idea /end sarcasm. Meth or not 1000cc injectors is just retarded. Again wasting money. Could easily use 750cc injectors and plenty of room left. I'm running 25psi on 750cc injectors. He wont be running that much with that small turbo, stock head, and a block not at least ringed.
oldskool wrote: Stock intake mani.
I don't even know where to begin with the retardedness, yea I made that word up, of this part. Not to mention it wont allow you to run the size throttle body you need. Are we noticing a trend in intake restriction? Single cam, stock head, stock cam, wont be able to have oversized valves, stock intake manifold, stock throttle body.
oldskool wrote: I was impressed that the whole build is coming in around 5000$ including the spare short block, clutch and flywheel!!
With leaving it half ass and not being able to come near his goal I'm not surprised at all.
oldskool wrote:I'm a little wary of the vitara pistons, but people have broken deep in to 600's on them.
Not ringed or sleeves and you're worried about the pistons?
oldskool wrote:bThoughts?
I don't think it'll make it off the dyno if he even comes close to his power goals.
Wow - tell me how you really feel. There's no reason to judge or be condescending towards me - its not my build or my money. I would do things differently. Thanks for the feedback anyways. I'll let him know he's going to have problems with the head/intake.
I ran a calculator for the injectors and 1000cc was playing it safe. 600BHP, 0.60 BSFC, 80% max IDC
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx
The IC was rated in flow for 600hp. If the turbo is effecient to 600hp, why is 400whp out of reach - speaking strictly about the turbo??
In anycase - i'll reiterate - not my build...
oldskool wrote:So he has an eg hatch that he is building. He has a non-vtec SOHC D16. Bottom end will be built with fresh bearings, eagle con rods, "vitara" pistons 8.5:1 comp ratio. He's going to run a 59mm precision turbo wit 0.63 A/R exhaust housing on a ram horn style manifold. The manufacture rates the turbot to 600hp. The head will be built with 11,000 rpm valvetrain components, but the head and cam will be stock. He will run 2.5" charge pipes, a huge FMIC, and a 3" exhaust. Tuning will be done with hondata s300 with boost control option and a 4bar MAP. He will also be running meth injection in addition to 1000cc/min injectors. Stock intake mani.
He wants 600hp at the crank, but will be satisfied with anything in the 400's to the wheels.
I was impressed that the whole build is coming in around 5000$ including the spare short block, clutch and flywheel!! I'm a little wary of the vitara pistons, but people have broken deep in to 600's on them. I'm also concerned about the stock head and cam for an all out build like this. He also should have gone with a progressive meth injection vs the simple on/off kind like he did. Thoughts?
Ill say 289 to 354whp MAX. Which D16 is it ? there are a MANY different heads for that thing from the factory........ I would have personally just built a B series, B18B LS could have probably accomplished more for the same price. I have quite a few friends doing 250 to 300+whp on the stock motor itself.
My Cav
I give up...
i'm buying a VW those people love trees, so they should love eachother too... "Andy"
D16z6. I'll let him know the comments, but i'm sure he wont be discouraged.
oldskool wrote:D16z6. I'll let him know the comments, but i'm sure he wont be discouraged.
A D16z6 is a VTEC engine.......
D16Z6
Found in
1992-1995 Honda Civic Si
1992-1995 Honda Civic EX, EX-V
1992-1995 Honda Civic ESi (European Market)
1993-1995 Honda Del Sol Si (US)
1993-1995 Honda Del Sol ESi (European)
Displacement : 1,590 cc (97 cu in)
Bore and Stroke : 75 mm × 90 mm (3.0 in × 3.5 in)
Rod Length : 137MM
Rod/Stroke : 1.52
Compression : 9.2:1
Power : 125 hp (93.2 kW, 127 ps) @ 6600 rpm
Torque : 106 ft·lb (14.7 kg/m, 144 Nm) @ 5200 rpm
Volumetric Efficiency : 87.68%
Redline : 7200 rpm
Fuel Cut : 7411 rpm
VTEC Switchover : 4800 rpm[3]
Fuel Control : OBD-1 MPFI
Head Code : P08
ECU Code : P28
^x2 the z6 is v-tec single cam. redline at 7,200 127hp109lbs at 5,300. i had a 93 si, it fell on its face till 4k even with a neutral drop pulled a 16.8 in the 1/4 with bolt-ons. ive seen mutipile z6' delsols with t3 60trims and hondata s100 run low-mid 14s, and a couple crxs with z6/16g's pull high...high 13s.
sorry i should have mentioned that hes building a d16 bottom end because there are more parts available. He will be using his stock d15y8 head...
Also, he's now having a custom intake mani built. I convinced him to open up the ports while the motor is disassembled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-CvdlJLes4
Here's a vid of a stock sleeved D16 vitara build putting out 600whp. Granted its professionally built and has a ported head and vtec, but it impresses the hell outta me!
honda engine terms really confuse me.
i thought the B -16 was the hot dog motor?
me=lost.
Familiar Taste of Poison.
z yaaaa wrote:honda engine terms really confuse me.
i thought the B -16 was the hot dog motor?
me=lost.
Yes it's a much better starting point being DOHC VTEC, but there's nothing wrong with building the underdog either. Think of D16s as the LN2 of the honda world
x2^
z yaaaa wrote:honda engine terms really confuse me.
i thought the B -16 was the hot dog motor?
me=lost.
Most of the confusion from Honda Engines is because there are so many of them.
D Series engines are mostly SOHC engines, and most of them are base model engines. Theres a bagillion varients around the world but what you see around the states and canada are 1.5 1.6 and 1.8 vtec and non vtec engines, between two series of engines, the D series and the B series.
The 1.5 non vtec engines D15b1 and D15b2 are basically the same, found in 88-91 civics. D15b7 and D15b8's are 1.5 non vtec engines found in 92-95 civics. The best 1.5 d series engine is the JDM D15B engine which has vtec. Of these engines the d15b2 and d15b7 are most common for there given years.
The main 1.6 D series engines are the D16y7, which is a base model 1.6 non vtec engine found in 96-2000 civics, the popular D16y8 which is a 1.6 vtec engine found in ex civics(si in canada) swapping a D16y8 is sometimes referred to as a mini me swap, and the d16z6,which is a 1.6 vtec engine that the op mentioned. the z6 is the 92-95 si engine.
You don't hear a whole lot about the 1.7's usually but they come in the 01-05 civics with the D17a2 getting the nod.
The only D series engines I would concern knowing are the D15b, D16y8 and the D16z6.
B series engines are more impressive engines. There are also many different variants. When someone says B16 they are usually reffering to either the B16A or B16A2, these are DOHC vtec engines with 160hp, the A is a JDM engine and the A2 is found in si and sir civics here. The b16B is the mother of 1.6 engines, the civic type r engine with 185 hp dohc vtec.
Theres a couple 1.8's that are in the base integra's, the b18b1 being the best, but the notable b18's are the b18 c's. The B18C is a JDM integra type r engine with 197hp, B18C1 is a gsr engine with 170 hp and the b18c5 is the USDM type r engine.
To summarize,
Hot Dog engines: B16A, B16A2, B16B, B18C, B18C1, B18C5 and to a much lesser extent D16Y8 and Z6.
Non Hot Dog engines: Everything else mentioned,
Its much easier having three engines, LN2, LD9 and L61.
K20 pwns all above engines though
can i buy a vowel?
Familiar Taste of Poison.
Shhhhhhhhh there there, its ok
K20 is a good motor, but for what it would cost to put a K in my car I could have a 400hp B-series. I'll take the 400hp motor. Its still too expensive for a kswap.
heh yeah, i know, its nice to dream though
mctoad wrote:x2^
z yaaaa wrote:honda engine terms really confuse me.
i thought the B -16 was the hot dog motor?
me=lost.
Most of the confusion from Honda Engines is because there are so many of them.
D Series engines are mostly SOHC engines, and most of them are base model engines. Theres a bagillion varients around the world but what you see around the states and canada are 1.5 1.6 and 1.8 vtec and non vtec engines, between two series of engines, the D series and the B series.
The 1.5 non vtec engines D15b1 and D15b2 are basically the same, found in 88-91 civics. D15b7 and D15b8's are 1.5 non vtec engines found in 92-95 civics. The best 1.5 d series engine is the JDM D15B engine which has vtec. Of these engines the d15b2 and d15b7 are most common for there given years.
The main 1.6 D series engines are the D16y7, which is a base model 1.6 non vtec engine found in 96-2000 civics, the popular D16y8 which is a 1.6 vtec engine found in ex civics(si in canada) swapping a D16y8 is sometimes referred to as a mini me swap, and the d16z6,which is a 1.6 vtec engine that the op mentioned. the z6 is the 92-95 si engine.
You don't hear a whole lot about the 1.7's usually but they come in the 01-05 civics with the D17a2 getting the nod.
The only D series engines I would concern knowing are the D15b, D16y8 and the D16z6.
B series engines are more impressive engines. There are also many different variants. When someone says B16 they are usually reffering to either the B16A or B16A2, these are DOHC vtec engines with 160hp, the A is a JDM engine and the A2 is found in si and sir civics here. The b16B is the mother of 1.6 engines, the civic type r engine with 185 hp dohc vtec.
Theres a couple 1.8's that are in the base integra's, the b18b1 being the best, but the notable b18's are the b18 c's. The B18C is a JDM integra type r engine with 197hp, B18C1 is a gsr engine with 170 hp and the b18c5 is the USDM type r engine.
To summarize,
Hot Dog engines: B16A, B16A2, B16B, B18C, B18C1, B18C5 and to a much lesser extent D16Y8 and Z6.
Non Hot Dog engines: Everything else mentioned,
Its much easier having three engines, LN2, LD9 and L61.
K20 pwns all above engines though
Cant forget about the H series!
